Manuel
11:32 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Sven Roeder 11:06 Fri Dec 31
''The driving forward of Rice creates space and opens up defences. Thats not Soucek's style''
Bit generous to say it's not his style, the reality is he isn't good enough to do that, he would probably fall over.
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SUM A DING WONG
11:29 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Nagel,
Soucek gets to donall those things you like him to do at the beginning of the game ( or however long it takes to take the lead).
You can play to both Soucek and Rice's needs and strengths, all in the same game.
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Nagel
11:24 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Slightly more of Soucek's goals have come from open play, not set pieces.
Rice is better at carrying the ball forward but Soucek also presses the ball further up the pitch when he's not playing so deep. Rice prefers to cut passing lanes and try to intercept rather than really press the ball. That style of play is better suited in our own half, unlike Soucek's dynamic harrying all over the pitch.
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SUM A DING WONG
11:20 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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That's what I've been saying Sven.
Start the game off old school Moyes, solid, nicking a goal Fellani style, to take the lead
Game opens up when the opposition has to come at us.
Enter Declan Rice. The beauty is, he can beat 2, 3 players with ease, plus having him drive with the ball means we have an extra runner as it saves one of the attacking players having to do it.
And, he's that good, if he loses it he'll chase back and get it, with the added help of Soucek staying back and backing him up.
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Sven Roeder
11:06 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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The driving forward of Rice creates space and opens up defences.
Thats not Soucek's style.
Soucek's goals are from inside the box mainly from set pieces.
Its not as black and white as one forward and one back but Rice is far more dangerous as he has developed this ability to carry the ball forward.
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legrandefromage
11:03 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Some might be mistaking missing chances at set pieces (which he is still obviously up for) with not getting into advanced positions from open play.
Looking at his Expected Goals stats it was 9.8 for the whole of last season. For the first half of this it is 2.8. Yes, it's not exactly scientific but does suggest he is not getting into as many scoring situations.
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Mex Martillo
10:24 Fri Dec 31
Re: Soucek
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Goals (assists)
2021-22
Rice 1(3)
Soucek 3(1)
2020-21
Rice 2(1)
Soucek 10(1)
2019-20
Rice 1(3)
Soucek 3(0) (half season)
For all the joy of seeing Rice go forward with the ball it doesn't increase his stats much if at all. Allowing Soucek to make forward runs into space is much much better for us.
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arsegrapes
6:49 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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"There's none so blind as folk who will not see"
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Jasnik
6:45 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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Soucek to me has been the same maybe a little off after the Euro's but he did get into goal scoring positions but just has not been as lucky of late. Think he hit the bar a few times.
Also Strong rumour hmmmm...
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Sir Alf
6:36 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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Opinions as always. And some posters will have different ways of looking at games but for me (IMHO), Soucek is still one of our best players and first on the teamsheet. Yes he is not that quick but the pressing/closing and covering work he gets through even when not at his best is impressive. The work off the ball he does is key. Others like Fornals and of course Rice in fact the whole team under Moyes now work harder off the ball with closing, pressing and getting back into position, making the transitions from defence to attack and back again, than I have ever seen in a West Ham team in over 60 years. Its how we have, to some extent, albeit with the addition of 3 or so players ( Bowen, Zouma and Soucek/Coufal), transformed from a bottom 6 to a top 6 - 8 side in under 2 seasons.
Soucek's height and long legs often get a foot in or clear danger before it develops. His performance levels ( passing especially ) did drop earlier this season and he was jaded after no rest in the summer I would imagine but I think he has reenergised himself now. His passing is looking better and he is winning the aerial duels again in the midfield. The point about his goal scoring is, as mentioned, that teams are aware of his late runs into the box on set pieces which were the source of most of his goals.
I wonder if bringing Kral into the team might be worth a try. It might mean leaving one of the more creative types like Benrahma, Fornals or Vlasic out of the starting 11 but would free both Rice and Soucek to make more of the box-to-box runs or in Soucek's case, he can take up more advanced positions when we break or attack and give us another aerial presence or just make those runs into the box like he did against Watford?
Anyway, Kral got his first premiership minutes last time out and I wonder if we might see him a bit more now that Benrahma is off to whatever that competition is in Jan? We dont really know if Kral is of any value as he has not really featured at all aside from in weakened sides in the cup. He appears to be a worker though, quicker than Noble ( who isnt), Soucek and possibly Rice too so might be able to provide more pressing in that midfield area. We shall soon find out I suppose but if he does not get many more minutes you can only guess Moyes has decided to not take up the loan to buy option.
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Nutsin
6:29 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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Soucek is way above average, sitting deep and going forward. Let’s get that out of the way first shall we.
To say he is just running around without touching the ball is idiotic and false.
Right now we need our central midfielders to protect our vulnerable central defenders first and foremost, now if we are losing and have to chase a game then of course we need to press on and take risks, which is what we are doing.
Until we are defensively sound we need to keep things as they are.
Even if it is considered conservative by the clueless.
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Side of Ham
6:16 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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You’ve just described a liability Manuel, as far as I can tell this year has seen far fewer tonkings for us……I like that…. and Soucek has played a big part in that…..plus he’d still cost a fortune to replace if we were to get rid. His change to the team dynamic along with Rice being able to rely on having an actual midfield partner he can rely on to match his efforts has allowed him to improve immensely.
Whilst we are at the top end of the table he’s had a good season with little respite….last season he was phenomenal for a large part of it……average is over the top as this would mean he was being carried for all those games that got us to 5th….I don’t think even Declan would put up with that being the case…..
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Sven Roeder
5:41 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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You'd have to have some stitched on first
A lot of defensive play is positioning and cutting off angles for passes into players in dangerous positions.
As said a lot of that isnt immediately obvious to halfwits who just count goals.
He hasnt been as outstanding as last season, is getting more attention in goal scoring positions but I dont think he has been as BAD as some say.
Moyes said as much but would he call him an average player as Norflondon did?
i expect not. Would do YOU reckon?
Is this player he picks every match AVERAGE?
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Manuel
5:29 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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Sven Roeder 5:23 Thu Dec 30
What a crock of shit, so now we are meant to heap praise on players for not even touching the fucking ball? Tell you what pay me 50k a week and I'll go out there and run me bollocks off.
As for asking Moyes & Declan Rice how AVERAGE he is, what a ridiculous and childish argument that is, and if anything Moyes has commented this season about Soucek's poor form compared to last season.
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Sven Roeder
5:23 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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A lot of his game is blocking up gaps in the midfield , holding the structure together and preventing teams flooding through us as they often did before he arrived.
Not always noticeable because it often involves not touching the ball and needs concentration and discipline and lots of running.
Do you want him to be Pirlo or Kevin DeBruyne?
He has enough pace for a big guy, endless energy and is useful in both boxes.
Go and ask Moyes & Declan Rice how AVERAGE he is
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PwoperNaughtyButNot
5:15 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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Is the deeper role the reason for all of his missed chances this year compared to last?
Smells like bullshit to me
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Norflundon
4:49 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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Sven
Please enlighten me about what goes under the radar….???
I see a midfielder that is very slow not a very good passer of the ball doesn’t have the ability to take people on decent in the tackle but due to his lack of pace gives quite a few fouls away. As I said 10-15 goals makes up for a lot of that, obviously he has a great engine he’s good at defending set pieces and he sits in front of the back four we’ll but again due to his lack of pace very rarely gets involved with counters. In summary he’s good in both boxes not so great in between imo if you take his effectiveness away in one of those areas like not scoring he’s a very average player.
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SUM A DING WONG
1:55 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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We play best as a counter attacking team.
So us starting solid so we don't go a goall down is important, so then we don't have to be the ones chasing.
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SUM A DING WONG
1:53 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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Kaiser Zoso
If we're one nil up, hitting teams on the break, Rice will better to burst forward with the ball getting us further up pitch for the attacking players to do damage.
If Rice can burst forward and start scoring more, great, but it wouldn't matter so much for him to score because we'd already be 1-0 up. His main job would be bursting forward commit the oppositions players leaving space for our forward players to exploit and score a second.
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Kaiser Zoso
1:45 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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I wouldn't worry about who goes forward more, or who scores more goals.
The fact is that in recent games, they've been way below the standards they've set, as a central defensive midfield block.
I hope they get that strength back because the two central defenders we currently have playing need all the help they can get.
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Sven Roeder
1:40 Thu Dec 30
Re: Soucek
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Without the goals he goes under the radar for people like Norflondon who have a slim grasp on football.
Most of his goals come from inside the area so obviously he now gets more attention at set pieces.
His finishing hasnt been as sharp but hopefully the smart finish at Watford is a turning point.
He still works just as hard and as said our midfield is always stronger with him in it. As mentioned his defensive work is outstanding.
Played all through last season , the Euros and still fronting up every game this season.
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